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	<title>Comments on: Just Say No: VC terms that can really hurt</title>
	<atom:link href="http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt</link>
	<description>Good advice for startups.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:12:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1329</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1329</guid>
		<description>No wonder more companies are avoiding VCs.  Seems there is an opportunity here for a company to represent the company and get the best deal for them.  If the business founders are working directly with the VCs their inexperience will hurt them and cost them $$$.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No wonder more companies are avoiding VCs.  Seems there is an opportunity here for a company to represent the company and get the best deal for them.  If the business founders are working directly with the VCs their inexperience will hurt them and cost them $$$.</p>
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		<title>By: Nivi</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1328</link>
		<dc:creator>Nivi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1328</guid>
		<description>Brian, It happens in the U.S. too. Check out this article: http://venturehacks.com/articles/acceleration-termination</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, It happens in the U.S. too. Check out this article: <a href="http://venturehacks.com/articles/acceleration-termination" rel="nofollow">http://venturehacks.com/articles/acceleration-termination</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1327</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1327</guid>
		<description>I used to work for a company that was HQ&#039;d in the UK and they had good-leaver and bad-leaver clauses in the option plan but I haven&#039;t heard much about it in the US, does that seem to be more of a UK or European convention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to work for a company that was HQ&#8217;d in the UK and they had good-leaver and bad-leaver clauses in the option plan but I haven&#8217;t heard much about it in the US, does that seem to be more of a UK or European convention?</p>
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		<title>By: Nivi</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1326</link>
		<dc:creator>Nivi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 21:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1326</guid>
		<description>Sho, you&#039;re right, investors try to protect their downside. Their investment is somewhat like a debt instrument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sho, you&#8217;re right, investors try to protect their downside. Their investment is somewhat like a debt instrument.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1325</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 08:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1325</guid>
		<description>It may depend on the valuation used for the financing. For aggressive valuations, VCs require extra protection. If on the other hand the valuation is realistic, there should be no need for additional caveats.

A valuation, in theory at least, is a weighted average present value of expected outcomes. Outcomes range from: (1) great performance, (2) good performance, (3) average performance (4) poor performance to (5) disaster.

Given the risk in startups, VCs attribute some weight to scenarios (3), (4) and (5) when doing their valuation. This reduces the weighted average and therefore the valuation. If however, they can implement a structural feature to get protection in these scenarios and therefore have a positive return in those scenarios (or at least loose less), they can justify paying a higher price for the business.

In public stock, investors don’t have these protections indeed but the valuation (i.e. share price) should reflect that.

Then again, maybe VCs even ask for these protection features when the valuation is realistic... ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may depend on the valuation used for the financing. For aggressive valuations, VCs require extra protection. If on the other hand the valuation is realistic, there should be no need for additional caveats.</p>
<p>A valuation, in theory at least, is a weighted average present value of expected outcomes. Outcomes range from: (1) great performance, (2) good performance, (3) average performance (4) poor performance to (5) disaster.</p>
<p>Given the risk in startups, VCs attribute some weight to scenarios (3), (4) and (5) when doing their valuation. This reduces the weighted average and therefore the valuation. If however, they can implement a structural feature to get protection in these scenarios and therefore have a positive return in those scenarios (or at least loose less), they can justify paying a higher price for the business.</p>
<p>In public stock, investors don’t have these protections indeed but the valuation (i.e. share price) should reflect that.</p>
<p>Then again, maybe VCs even ask for these protection features when the valuation is realistic&#8230; ?</p>
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		<title>By: Sho</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1324</link>
		<dc:creator>Sho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 03:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1324</guid>
		<description>Fred(s).

I can imagine the scenarios you are painting, and I agree that VCs will want protection against someone taking a $1M investment and selling the company the next week leaving you with $500k.

However, if there is a clause in the contract that guarantees that you can have your initial investment back in a liquidation event, isn&#039;t that the same thing as saying that you want all upside and no downside?

When I purchase shares in a public company, I don&#039;t have a guarantee that I can get my initial investment back. And VC funding is, by nature, more risky, right?

Help me understand this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred(s).</p>
<p>I can imagine the scenarios you are painting, and I agree that VCs will want protection against someone taking a $1M investment and selling the company the next week leaving you with $500k.</p>
<p>However, if there is a clause in the contract that guarantees that you can have your initial investment back in a liquidation event, isn&#8217;t that the same thing as saying that you want all upside and no downside?</p>
<p>When I purchase shares in a public company, I don&#8217;t have a guarantee that I can get my initial investment back. And VC funding is, by nature, more risky, right?</p>
<p>Help me understand this.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Destin</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1323</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Destin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1323</guid>
		<description>I wrote too fast :-(  Meant company gets sold for $5M, investors get $2M (50% writeoff) and entrepreneur gets $3M = not right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote too fast <img src='http://venturehacks.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' />   Meant company gets sold for $5M, investors get $2M (50% writeoff) and entrepreneur gets $3M = not right.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Destin</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1322</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Destin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1322</guid>
		<description>Completely disagree.  The Freds are not being disingenuous :-)

A simple liquidation preference goes away quickly when upside is created, but Liquidation Preference is necessary to protect the investor against arbitrage.

Say entrepreneur own 60% and VC&#039;s 40% after investing $4M.  Company gets sold for $10M, entrepreneur get $6M, ZERO value created since the round. QED. Not right.

Liquidation Preference forces value creation before exit.  One of the few terms I cannot see myself living without.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely disagree.  The Freds are not being disingenuous <img src='http://venturehacks.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>A simple liquidation preference goes away quickly when upside is created, but Liquidation Preference is necessary to protect the investor against arbitrage.</p>
<p>Say entrepreneur own 60% and VC&#8217;s 40% after investing $4M.  Company gets sold for $10M, entrepreneur get $6M, ZERO value created since the round. QED. Not right.</p>
<p>Liquidation Preference forces value creation before exit.  One of the few terms I cannot see myself living without.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Destin</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1321</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Destin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1321</guid>
		<description>I have seen full ratchet used in anger to screw original founders, with incoming management and VC&#039;s leveraging it to the full.  You could even have an argument about anti-dilution in general…  Luckily it is rare and seems to be disappearing in the US (the Fenwick reports state that full-ratchet only appears in 3% of transactions) but it is common to prevalent in some local European markets where some so-called VC&#039;s do not act in the &quot;Bay Area&quot; spirit of the industry that we should all espouse.

I don&#039;t like double dip, thought it really depends on the return tradeoff you accept (price vs liqu pref).  We will talk about it somewhat in part II.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen full ratchet used in anger to screw original founders, with incoming management and VC&#8217;s leveraging it to the full.  You could even have an argument about anti-dilution in general…  Luckily it is rare and seems to be disappearing in the US (the Fenwick reports state that full-ratchet only appears in 3% of transactions) but it is common to prevalent in some local European markets where some so-called VC&#8217;s do not act in the &#8220;Bay Area&#8221; spirit of the industry that we should all espouse.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like double dip, thought it really depends on the return tradeoff you accept (price vs liqu pref).  We will talk about it somewhat in part II.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Destin</title>
		<link>http://venturehacks.com/articles/terms-that-hurt/comment-page-1#comment-1320</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Destin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://venturehacks.com/?p=3145#comment-1320</guid>
		<description>I think it happens regularly.

I know of at least 2 or 3 cases involving tier 1 investors that have never hit the wire.

Very often we move fast and we may not always have the right controls in place.  This is why getting decent auditors and getting them to do their job matters, even though none of us like to waste any time doing this (and trust me, I avoid audit committees like the plague :-)).

I count myself lucky that this has not happened yet to me, but it is possible that a less than completely self-confident CEO of mine may have played around with revenue timing to smooth his financial profile, I may never know!!

Fundamentally it is hard to protect against sophisticated fraud in early stage, and nothing replaces trust and... extensive reference checks.  I always like having trusted people in common with people I back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it happens regularly.</p>
<p>I know of at least 2 or 3 cases involving tier 1 investors that have never hit the wire.</p>
<p>Very often we move fast and we may not always have the right controls in place.  This is why getting decent auditors and getting them to do their job matters, even though none of us like to waste any time doing this (and trust me, I avoid audit committees like the plague <img src='http://venturehacks.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ).</p>
<p>I count myself lucky that this has not happened yet to me, but it is possible that a less than completely self-confident CEO of mine may have played around with revenue timing to smooth his financial profile, I may never know!!</p>
<p>Fundamentally it is hard to protect against sophisticated fraud in early stage, and nothing replaces trust and&#8230; extensive reference checks.  I always like having trusted people in common with people I back.</p>
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